Chat Log 1/20/97

CHAT LOG

This is the online discussion of the original submission of Paul Carlson's short story "Oasis." which was held in the Writer's Den in January 1997.

The written critiques are also posted on this site: Crits. You can also read the rewritten version of the story: Oasis2.

As is customary with these Logs, it has been edited for clarity, correcting typos and removing much of the extraneous chatter.

1/20/97 6:55:19 PM Opening "Chat Log* 1/20/97"

Berrins: Hey, just got here, where's all the chatting?

NeonDust: <---have big small problems...;)

Rhyssa2: Hi Paul and group.

NeonDust: Hi, Debbie

Sushiwritr: Hi Debbie. Who's greeting tonight?

Berrins: Yello Debster

Rhyssa2: Amy will be greeting as soon as she arrives

Berrins: go figure

Sushiwritr: Now the Fiction Writers is beginning!!!

Rhyssa2: Paul do you want to wait for her?

Berrins: (organ theme music)

Sushiwritr: Possibly that's better.

Sushiwritr: Surf's up tonight.

Strebe: Dog Ends? LOL. Is that like dag ends?

Berrins: I think she's snoozing under a cottonwood tree

Sushiwritr: AMY!!!!!!!!

Sushiwritr: Wake up!

Berrins: teeth all stuck with peanut brittle

Rhyssa2: Until then... The eWorld fiction writers group will be meeting soon. Everyone is free to stay and listen. :)

Strebe: Dag ends is an Australian term that means "left-overs".

Sushiwritr: Discussing a work.

Sushiwritr: (mine)

NeonDust: Sushi, sorry I was up against the wire w/critique...barely got back to LA Sunday-camping was addictive

Berrins: Hot dags!

Sushiwritr: But you made it!

Rhyssa2: Ok Amy is here. We can start:)

NeonDust: Yup! :)

Sushiwritr: Ahem.

Sushiwritr: BTW--my wife is going to kill me.

Sushiwritr: Five minutes ago she asked me to drive her to work.

Mstrebe: Hello Everyone. I'm here, but I also have to work so I'm going to be rather ethereal.

Berrins: Save it for the mystery group

Strebe: Oh. That's not wise. Tell her I'll pay her upwards of $75 not to.

Sushiwritr: A friend took her, so its OK.

Berrins: Thats ok, i'm having cereal

Sushiwritr: I'll address your crits in rough order.

NeonDust: A ceries...?:)

Sushiwritr: Amy asked for more descriptions.

Sushiwritr: Of the characters.

Sushiwritr: But I wonder, physical or internal?

Sushiwritr: Where to add the details?

Strebe: Where's the hisssssssssing Australian these days??

Sushiwritr: Judy? Don't know.

Berrins: for me, internal. the police report gives the physical

Rhyssa2: I liked the detail in the police report, btw.

Sushiwritr: Those guys were rather calm, I guess.

Berrins: Has James always been religious, or is a recent convert like Ted?

NeonDust: <--liked the sparse style, perhaps more dialogue w/townsfolk..

Sushiwritr: Good point. Can add that detail. A bit longer, but not much.

Sushiwritr: Dialogue, like an actual "sale" or something.

Rhyssa2: That would be good.

Sushiwritr: Debbie mentioned a few things,

Berrins: Are they members of a large organized religion or a small cult sized group?

NeonDust: Maybe just a hint more of their 'outsiderness'.

Strebe: {{{ Leslie }}}

Cafe Mom: Didn't he mention that they were Mormon?

Sushiwritr: Smaller. Catholics don't have to beat the bushes like that!

Cafe Mom: {{{daan}}} hey there

Sushiwritr: Hi Leslie.

Berrins: No, just that Mormons like candy

Sushiwritr: Mormon area, not that the guys are Mormon themselves.

Sushiwritr: No books in hand--just candy.

Cafe Mom: oh, okay, just wondered what experience you have with Mormons

Berrins: I guess my children are Mormons, too <g>

Sushiwritr: Debbie said the guard at the gate was too relaxed.

Sushiwritr: (Lived in Mormon country for many years.)

Cafe Mom: I thought Matt's comments about the base were good

Berrins: Matt added what I thought; they would never have gotten in that easily.

Rhyssa2: I agreed with Matt's comments, too.

Sushiwritr: I might add that, surely, the first guard got in trouble.

Cafe Mom: then you should show us that

Sushiwritr: Perhaps, big trouble.

Berrins: Perhaps James was in the military, and his ID is the only one he's got.

Sushiwritr: Debbie mentioned "trouble peeing."

Berrins: Does that work, Matt?

Rhyssa2: He is in the brig with the guys.

Sushiwritr: Guys are locker-room urinal users.

Cafe Mom: This didn't seem like enough trouble for a compelling story, to me

Sushiwritr: The cuffs make peeing difficult. ;-)

Cafe Mom: (sorry I didn't get a crit in yet...I will, Paul)

Sushiwritr: Thanks.

Sushiwritr: If the guys had been "charged," it could be serious trouble.

Sushiwritr: But they were not.

Cafe Mom: but they weren't

NeonDust: I felt trouble coming, but in the end it de-materialized....

Cafe Mom: so....you would consider that?

Sushiwritr: I wrote it like a "slice of life."

Sushiwritr: Somebody said Road Novel. I like the term.

Berrins: a technical question; does someone have to be charged with something if they are read their rights?

Sushiwritr: No.

Cafe Mom: I thought the preserves were not realistic. Sorry.

Sushiwritr: My buddy, deputy Doug, sent me a Miranda card.

Sushiwritr: I read it to everyone at work.

NeonDust: The card?

Sushiwritr: Yes.

Cafe Mom: (we're not on protocol or anything tonight, are we?)

Sushiwritr: It just avoids the crooks getting off later, on technicalities.

Cafe Mom: which is rare

Sushiwritr: No protocal.

Mstrebe: {jerking suddenly to life} ID cards are designed to expire on your end of service.

Berrins: Any particular aspect of the story you would like questions on?

NeonDust: If anyone 'assumes the position' you'll know who's been around some...:)

Sushiwritr: I wondered whether to jazz it up.

Sushiwritr: Or just leave it like a "day in the life of."

Sushiwritr: Opposite to my other work, I now realize.

Mstrebe: < recovering Mormon

Berrins: the flat tone would work with some contrast, or as a "lull before the storm"

Sushiwritr: How DO you spell "damnednably"?

Rhyssa2: Are you striving for a certain word count, Paul?

Strebe: Matt, you recovered long, long ago.

Strebe: Damnably

Cafe Mom: Matt, are there 12 step programs for that? <g>

Sushiwritr: Sure?

Cafe Mom: 'course, then you'd be a recovering 12-stepper

NeonDust: I'd like the ending to reflect the two character's character...sorry to harp on that..:)

Mstrebe: Leslie-- Of course. It's called Beer.

Strebe: Am I sure of the spelling? I'd be willing to bet a GOOD milk shake on it.

Mstrebe: Two six packs

Cafe Mom: LOL

Sushiwritr: Roger mentioned adding the character's previous experiences.

Sushiwritr: How, that is, could they compare MPs with regular cops?

Sushiwritr: (Ever done anything irregular in a small town?)

Mstrebe: In my experience, MPs are a lot more likely to break heads.

Sushiwritr: Yikes!

Mstrebe: How does a small town get inside a military reservation?

Cafe Mom: Matt, that's what I was thinking

Sushiwritr: Appearances. Ever been to Los Alamos? It looks like two small towns

Cafe Mom: I almost got arrested on base for not standing for the Pledge before a Woody Allen movie

Mstrebe: The town isn't actually in the base though--It's like Ridgecrest: Adjacent to it.

NeonDust: True...I'm unclear why Parks would have authority over the MP's

Strebe: ROFL Leslie

Berrins: The local Vets hospital has a lot of housing on it. Is that different from a reservation?

Sushiwritr: "Looks like" a small town--isn't really one.

Sushiwritr: I think Parks had authority over the civilians.

Mstrebe: That I can buy, but you still wouldn't be able to buy gas or anything else.

Berrins: Leslie- they must have been bananas....

Mstrebe: Why does this have to happen on a Base at all?

Cafe Mom: I get it

Sushiwritr: I've done it before.

Sushiwritr: Used to work for an AAFES sub-contractor.

Cafe Mom: (It was Sleeper)

Sushiwritr: The clerks can be pretty lax.

Mstrebe: Some bases might be a little more relaxed--but not a restricted one.

Sushiwritr: About cards and all.

Sushiwritr: I saw Sleeper==a silly classic.

Sushiwritr: Roger, good points about the "negative" statements.

Sushiwritr: The one is ment to be ironic--the others I let slip by.

Mstrebe: Actually, there some civilian run business on bases, but not the gas stations.

Sushiwritr: That's what I figured, Matt.

Berrins: Thanks. I'm reading Safire's book "FumbleRules"; good information.

Sushiwritr: Have to check it out.

Mstrebe: So why does this have to happen on a base, since the base doesn't really act like a base?

Sushiwritr: He's one of the Guardians of English.

Sushiwritr: It could have been a number of other places, I guess.

Berrins: The pen as mighty sword.

Sushiwritr: This just seems the most bizzare sort of situation.

Sushiwritr: Oh, about those cottonwood trees.

Cafe Mom: I think it could be more bizarre with regular cops

Sushiwritr: In the Great Basin they mark settlements.

Rhyssa2: Some red-neck towns can be even more bizzare. ;)

Sushiwritr: Settlers planted them near homes and streams.

NeonDust: Paul, was it a coincidence that their ride to town turns out to be the spokesperson for the base?

Sushiwritr: Coincidence?

Cafe Mom: nothing is a coincidence, or nothing should be

Sushiwritr: No. Did not try to attach any big significance to it.

Sushiwritr: Daan, you mentioned about the "purpose of the story."

Rhyssa2: Amy is doing a wonderful job. It's pretty busy out there.

Sushiwritr: I did not "grow" the characters.

Berrins: cloned?

Sushiwritr: I was not thinking in those terms.

Sushiwritr: Should I?

Strebe: Well. Gosh. I finished the story not having understood why it was written.

Cafe Mom: May I say something?

Strebe: Not all stories require character development.

Sushiwritr: Do they need a purpose?

Strebe: That's why I couldn't comment. I just didn't understand what the story was for.

Sushiwritr: I'm usually bonked for overdoing that! ;-)

Cafe Mom: In a story this short, there needs to be something more.

Sushiwritr: It could be longer.

Sushiwritr: I did not preset a word count.

Sushiwritr: More what, Leslie?

NeonDust: ::was about to ask, 'What was the point of the ending?', but then glanced at my story in progress :)

Berrins: How about constrasting the peaceful desert with the sudden military response

Sushiwritr: The title, "Oasis," meant to tie in the base, and the ending.

Cafe Mom: More conflict, more intensity, more action, more of a lot of things

Cafe Mom: I do like the title, but they're my favorite band. ;-)

Sushiwritr: Oh!

Sushiwritr: Should a helicopter explode?

Cafe Mom: perhaps

Sushiwritr: Perhaps one carrying nerve gas?

Cafe Mom: I'm serious

Berrins: chutzpah gas

Rhyssa2: Matt must be asleep.

Cafe Mom: Why did one character have to be black? It didn't seem to matter.

Berrins: Actually , Paul, not a bad idea. Bring in some protestors later on.

Sushiwritr: So, there's a "real but dull," version, and a jazzed-up storytelling version.

Cafe Mom: fiction shouldn't be like real life

Sushiwritr: Those bases do attract protesters.

Mstrebe: Oh, helicopter--yes, good idea.

Mstrebe: Helicopters are like ketchup on a story.

Sushiwritr: Used to drive by the atomic test site, saw them every time.

Sushiwritr: atomic ketchup?

NeonDust: <--thought the style (clipped, somewhat terse) matched the surroundings nicely

Rhyssa2: glow in the dark good

Berrins: Yes, Paul, the style matched the setting, until they were detained

Sushiwritr: BTW, Mormons do, indeed, make candy.

Strebe: I didn't when I was Mormon. I just bought it.

Sushiwritr: Once ate pound-sized fudge from Salt lake City.

Strebe: I still do.

Cafe Mom: LOL

Mstrebe: Oh, they make it all the time. They don't buy it.

Sushiwritr: But I can assure you that European chocolate is very popular in SLC; Finnish, Dutch, etc.

Berrins: Hey, its enough that they are selling candy for a religious cause.

Sushiwritr: Glad you liked my desert-descriptions.

Cafe Mom: what does this have to do with your story

Cafe Mom: did you ever describe the candy?

Cafe Mom: I don't even remember

Sushiwritr: Makes it realistic.

Berrins: Assuming the head guy isn't absconding with the funds...

Sushiwritr: So that's an area of TOO much detail??

Sushiwritr: Maybe I ought to add on a PS.

Sushiwritr: The phone was off due to line work that day, or something.

Berrins: The candy part is fine; sweet, actually.

Sushiwritr: I did not mean to question anyone's sincereity.

Rhyssa2: Paul, I'm sure the picture, of the story, in your head is quite clear. You just need to show the reader more of what you are seeing.

Sushiwritr: True, Debbie.

Sushiwritr: That's why you guys are so great.

Sushiwritr: One of the many reasons. :-)

Sushiwritr: Things are easily missed in the translation to the page.

NeonDust: I found the beginning to be character driven, and the ending to be driving the characters.

Sushiwritr: Hmm . . .

NeonDust: But I like the writing.

Sushiwritr: That is like my character Sandy.

Sushiwritr: Swept along by the situation.

Sushiwritr: Maybe they need to be more active.

NeonDust: Maybe they should be the ones to get themselves out of their situation?

Berrins: Not necessarily, but something needs to be going on

Sushiwritr: Of course, the wrong sort of action would get their heads bashed by the MPs . . .

Berrins: Ted's past could get them into more trouble

Sushiwritr: About the ranks and titles.

NeonDust: Head bashing is lively reading...:)

Sushiwritr: Any ideas from you vets?

Sushiwritr: "Head MP" is not right, I know that.

Sushiwritr: Neither is "guard."

Cafe Mom: yes, I think some head bashing would be good

NeonDust: Just use rank..sergeants, corporals etc...

Sushiwritr: Matt?

Sushiwritr: Corporal so and so, please bash this guy's head.

NeonDust: lol

Sushiwritr: Sir.

Mstrebe: Rank is correct.

Berrins: Maybe Ted could panic, thinking his past is going to catch up with himk and he tries to escape.

Mstrebe: The station commander might be the correct title, or simply the Captain.

Sushiwritr: OK> What rank is a lonely guard, usually?

NeonDust: :::held his sputtering face into a jar of preserves on the gas weapon reserve:::

Sushiwritr: Seems like scut-work duty.

Rhyssa2: but will the guys know what the rank is just by looking at the sleeves>

Mstrebe: Lonely guards are generally e4 through E6 if they're MPs.

Cafe Mom: perhaps the person could brag about his rank. Military types sometimes do that.

Mstrebe: The Officer in charge (OIC) would be an O2 or O3

NeonDust: Good point, Cafe Mom

Sushiwritr: I had a guy do that once.

Cafe Mom: thanks, Neon

Sushiwritr: In Oklahoma.

Sushiwritr: "I am a Lt. in the US Army-" etc., like he was a cardinal from the Pope or something.

NeonDust: yeah, and...'you kids are in deep trouble' kinda thing

Sushiwritr: I appreaciate his service, don't get me wrong.

Sushiwritr: But the guy didn't impress me much, otherwise.

Cafe Mom: are you Catholic, Paul?

Cafe Mom: just curious

Sushiwritr: No.

Sushiwritr: OIC, eh?

Mstrebe: Officer in Charge. It's a generic term for the boss.

Sushiwritr: Sounds good--I'll use it.

Berrins: O3- term for ozone.

Sushiwritr: I wonder about jazzing up the story, though.

Cafe Mom: He could say OIC, and they could misread it as "Oh I see."

NeonDust: <--like to see Ted and James bust outta there, and look back on their ordeal, and carry on...

Mstrebe: Add a jazz bar.

Berrins: That depends on the tone you want.

Amylf1: more contrast between the characters...

Cafe Mom: a roadhouse

Cafe Mom: that would be cool

Sushiwritr: Quiet outside, fraught with potential perils.

Berrins: Good idea, Amy

Cafe Mom: kind of Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolfish

Sushiwritr: Ah, bikers eat peanut brittle too, you know.

Mstrebe: Have someone die.

NeonDust: lol

NeonDust: <--lol re: peanut brittle...:)

Sushiwritr: Contrast between the characters? How?

Amylf1: mmmm... their life stories...

Sushiwritr: In their attitudes, or ??

Amylf1: yes

Berrins: Paul, I like the austere, flat style, but pumping it up takes that away unless you use it as contrast

Sushiwritr: Yes, more about their lives. As narrative? Or conversation?

Strebe: Sorry. Got booted.

Mstrebe: Contrast: Have one be white and one be black.

Sushiwritr: lol

Sushiwritr: I'm lucky. Was booted twice, earlier on.

Berrins: Or one be russian and the other a red neck

NeonDust: Remember Pulp Fiction? The banal, bizarre conversation on the way to a killing...wow!

Sushiwritr: Red necks don't like religious door-knockers.

Sushiwritr: UNLESS they have yummy candy in hand.

Berrins: Or a husband/wife team with problems they are avoiding

Cafe Mom: Nobody likes religious door knockers

Cafe Mom: not even other religious door knockers

Sushiwritr: They don't like me . . . I debate them ferociously.

Amylf1: remember who has come to your door, asking for church donations?

NeonDust: <--hadda a cross door knob once! :)

Berrins: a converted red neck

Rhyssa2: Amen, Leslie. :)

Berrins: "on a mission for god"

Sushiwritr: But we've had Mormons over for dinner, too.

Sushiwritr: Long ways from home, 'ya know.

Mstrebe: I've had mormons over for dinner too.

Berrins: Main idea- the setting lulls the main characters into not discussing their differences

Sushiwritr: Active missionaries, I mean.

NeonDust: Paul, perhaps the person who called the MP's...you might give us a bit of her deal...

Sushiwritr: Yes.

Sushiwritr: Good idea.

Berrins: That, and their mission

Sushiwritr: Could object for any of several reasons--or all of them.

Amylf1: you captured the feel of the environment... very well...

Sushiwritr: I love the desert.

Amylf1: and I guess we want more description of the others

NeonDust: Yes.

Mstrebe: CharlesAP went on a mormon mission Paul.

Sushiwritr: Debbie--Vegas to Alaska--quite a contrast.

Cafe Mom: I have never seen the desert; therefore, I find it difficult to believe it exists.

Rhyssa2: Alaska is much better. :)

Berrins: The incident at the base (roadhouse, etc) forces them to confront the differences

Sushiwritr: Really!

Strebe: Well. What an awful connection.

Sushiwritr: Black missionaries have it hard. Racism and religious animosity.

Berrins: Don't cacti come in little stone filled dishes?

NeonDust: I fell right dab splat into the desert environment almost immediately..it was great

Strebe: I, too, served a Mormon mission. To Japan, oddly enough.

Sushiwritr: Aha! That's where you picked up on the nihongo.

Sushiwritr: I drive by the Defense Language Institute sometimes.

Cafe Mom: I think the desert is a NASA conspiracy.

Strebe: LOL Leslie

Sushiwritr: But they say the Mormon school is even better.

Berrins: nihongo?

Sushiwritr: Japanese in Japanese.

Rhyssa2: Paul, do you have any more questions?

Sushiwritr: I'm about out of 'em.

Sushiwritr: Whew!

Sushiwritr: Fingers typed to the bone.

Rhyssa2: Okay, then I would like to welcome our newest member NeonDust.

Rhyssa2: Please add him to your mailing lists.

Cafe Mom: Welcome ND

Sushiwritr: : : : : fireworks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Berrins: Shalom!!

Sushiwritr: Will add to list promptly.

NeonDust: Thank you all! :) <---ubiquitous happy face!

Cafe Mom: and a good speller, too!

Cafe Mom: ;-)

Rhyssa2: Amy has a few things to say about next week's meeting

Sushiwritr: I see why Neon wants more action in my tale. Think "screenplay." ;-)

NeonDust: Cafe M, have me good spells, me bad spells...:)

Berrins: Perhaps James's mother ran away, leaving his two sisters to be raised by their father...

Sushiwritr: Can I mention one more thing?

Strebe: LOL NeonDust (fuddy AOL connection. Sigh)

Sushiwritr: I kind of "cheated" on the plot of this story.

Mstrebe: No kidding.

Berrins: How so?

NeonDust: What!!!

Strebe: No. You plagiarized???

Cafe Mom: uh-oh....you didn't use Plotto, did you?

Sushiwritr: Only from Life.

Amylf1: <confession, Paul?>

Strebe: Okay. Gosh. I thought it might have been Somerset Maugham.

Sushiwritr: As they say on TV, this was "based on an actual incident."

Mstrebe: What were you selling?

Berrins: was it based on an actual base?

Amylf1: <one of the fellows is you?>

Sushiwritr: Improbable as it all seems, it really happened.

NeonDust: :::based....Base....hmmmn...:)

Sushiwritr: Almost 20 years ago.

Strebe: ROFL So much for it's not possible

Sushiwritr: The base was in Utah.

Cafe Mom: BUT...this is my suggestion. Just because it really happened, doesn't mean it's a story.

Cafe Mom: You have to add conflict

NeonDust: Were you selling candy?

Sushiwritr: True, and, yes.

Sushiwritr: Not candy, in fact.

Berrins: And you still have all your own teeth? Selling toothbrushes with the candy?

Sushiwritr: So SOME of it was made up.

Berrins: The brittle truth

Sushiwritr: It was another, home-made sort of product. hard to describe.

NeonDust: <--bought 'candy'...always inhaled... :)

Sushiwritr: (have all my teeth) :-)

Amylf1: cookie/candy... like

Mstrebe: Give it a shot.

Sushiwritr: Now I can jazz it up!

Cafe Mom: dope?