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11/20/06 7:40:04 PM Opening "Chat Log 11/20/06"

BrownDvs: Here I am.
PCarlson: here is our guest!
Mallie1025: Oh great!! Hello then
Saeba2001: Howdy folks!
PHeeren: hello
BrownDvs: Hey there, Saeba
RLMorgan51: is that name pronounced SAY BAH
Saeba2001: Sa eh bah
BrownDvs: Is that Indian?
Saeba2001: It's from a Japanese cartoon. MY actual name is Gloria Oliver
Saeba2001: No problem. Didn't know who else to poke at :P
RLMorgan51: okay one more syllable than I thought
BrownDvs: And here I thought you were a teenaged white boy. I was way off.
Saeba2001: So...what would you guys like to talk about? What would be most beneficial?
PCarlson: Gloria, did you have a topic?
PCarlson: or if not, we are always filled with questions
Saeba2001: INO, I couldn't think of anything. Was too nervous trying to make sure to make the meeting this time lol
Mallie1025: What type writing do you do?
Saeba2001: I write Spec Fic, though all my novels so far have been in the Fantasy genre
PCarlson: we have several Fantasy mavens
Mallie1025: What is spec fic? Writing on spec for publishers?
Saeba2001: Spec Fic = Speculative Fiction and basically covers Fantasy/Scifi/Horro
Saeba2001: errr horror
Mallie1025: Never be nervous with this group--except when Paul gets cranky lol
Saeba2001: lol
Mallie1025: paranormal too--I write that
PCarlson: you do not want Paul to be cranky . . . makes Freddy Krueger look like a kitten ;-D
RLMorgan51: besides we all have had our shots........at least I think we do
RLMorgan51: :-D
JnsnAngel: No need for nerves, we are all nice. No temperamental writers here.
Mallie1025: nah--his bark is worse than his bite--I hope lol
Saeba2001: :o)
Saeba2001: We can discuss marketing, world building, general writing, conventions, whatever you guys are itching to go at. And I might even know something!
PCarlson: remind me Gloria, are you in the SFWA?
JnsnAngel: Do you write from an outline, or just start writing?
RLMorgan51: my first paranormal romance here
Mallie1025: What is your average word count or pages
Saeba2001: No, I have not been able to join SFWA. They changed the rules on me right as I sent in my check about a year plus ago. :P
PCarlson: (I am hoping the tale I'm working on right now will get sold to a pro market)
PCarlson: ouch!
Saeba2001: I don't normally use outlines, but I do have some idea on the project. Always have info pages on the world and people
Saeba2001: For novels I average 80 to 100K
Saeba2001: words that is
JnsnAngel: Your characters personality profile?
Mallie1025: wow--good size!
Saeba2001: Yeah a pseudo profile, plus customs, general info, and things as I come up with them to make sure I remain consistent
Mallie1025: I do character and place sketches rather than outlines, too
Saeba2001: Yeah gotta have those. :P
Mallie1025: How much work do you do in the marketing end?
PCarlson: hi Barry
Saeba2001: Marketing, I am coming to find out, can take even more time than writing. Bane of my existence. :P
BornToVector: hi Paul
Saeba2001: Always trying to come up with new ways to push and also not to get new ideas
PCarlson: no kidding about the marketing
PCarlson: got more stories flying around than kites at a park in May
Mallie1025: Mine too--why can't we be like Ludlum? Write in legal pads and had it to the publisher!!
Saeba2001: Pretty much nowadays, unless you are one of the top 1% you are on your own even with the big publishers
Mallie1025: hand
Saeba2001: lol
Mallie1025: I have no patience or talent in marketing--or desire
Saeba2001: Marketing gets VERY tiring. BUt luckily some of it does it's own thing.
JnsnAngel: Marketing is the big problem. I am about to take the challenge.
PCarlson: there are outfits with magazine ads, like "we'll do it all for you."
Saeba2001: Me neither. But it is unfortunately part of the beast
Mallie1025: yes-a domino effect--with any luck
PCarlson: I wonder if they are legit? Never seen any input, either way.
Saeba2001: Heck if you have the money... lol
PCarlson: ahh . . . they want money
Saeba2001: I tried a publicist once but since I am small press it was a total waste. The first person I talked to knew my market, but who I got stuck with...
Mallie1025: Paul and usually they do some and then you are still on your own
Saeba2001: Conventions are a great marketing outlet as you can use the freebie tables and not have to push yourself directly
Mallie1025: My publisher will do press releases, and a few book signings and some other stuff and then it's all me--yikes!
Saeba2001: Yep
PCarlson: yes, Gloria is a fellow Yard Doggie
JnsnAngel: My book is to a certain extent on horse racing. I am going to ask the track if I can sell them there.
RLMorgan51: sorry all got to rub
RLMorgan51: nite all
Saeba2001: Nice angle! You should go for it!
RLMorgan51: that's got to run
JnsnAngel: Have to be creative I guess.
Saeba2001: NIght RLM
PCarlson: very big with conventions. Sell and sign books, and generally create an outrageous uproar
Mallie1025: Good idea, angel
JnsnAngel: I may have to give them a percentage.
PCarlson: tell them you are the new Dick Francis
Saeba2001: Actually when you start out you want to start with the small conventions. Easier to get in! lol. Go and meet the comcom and schmooze at their parties if you can
Saeba2001: If you want to be a guest that is
PCarlson: be on panels and wave a copy of your book at the audience
Mallie1025: Conventions will be a problem since I don't fly lol--or travel far
Saeba2001: Heh heh heh something like that
Saeba2001: There might be some locally you can go to. I am very lucky that we have several in town
PCarlson: Micki, have you checked the listings? bet there are a ton of Cons in the immediate NY/NJ area
Saeba2001: This year I did a freebie table campaign and mailed stuff to the conventions for them. Didn't even go there
Mallie1025: My publisher wants flyers handed out--to who?
PHeeren: hi
Saeba2001: Maggie!!! OMG!
PCarlson: Hi Maggie
Mallie1025: Paul some in Manhattan--where I really hate to travel to
JnsnAngel: I can't imagine who you would give flyers to unless it would be at a convention.
Saeba2001: <+ Gloria
PCarlson: I know the feeling. "The City" as your locals call it.
Skywarrior3: Heya
PHeeren: sorry I was away from the chat............I had to write my British pen friend an email
Saeba2001: np
JnsnAngel: Glad you are back Pheeren.
Mallie1025: Yes Paul - put your life on the line driving in
Mallie1025: Hi sky
Skywarrior3: hey there
PHeeren: she asked me for my Canadian pen friend's address because I sent a letter addressed to him to my British pen friend....age has played a trick on me
PHeeren: lol
Saeba2001: Like I said, a lot of conventions will let you just send them stuff to put on the freebie tables. Most have contact emails on the sites
PHeeren: mix up, you know
PCarlson: like handouts? flyers?
Saeba2001: Yep. Bookmarks, handouts, postcards, sample cd's, all of it
JnsnAngel: How do you find the conventions. Just put writing conventions in the browser.
PCarlson: ah yeah! I got a packet of bookmarks from "The First Line" today
Saeba2001: I have a varied assortment of promo
PCarlson: anybody wants some, I'll pop 'em in the snail mail :-)
Skywarrior3: nods
PatGuth: Hi all.
PHeeren: yes please send me some packet
Saeba2001: There are several websites that list conventions. Depends on your genre and to which site you might want
Mallie1025: Hi Pat--glad you made it
PatGuth: Me too
Saeba2001: Hey there Pat
PatGuth: Hi
JnsnAngel: romance/adventure
Mallie1025: Gloria, you mean you can send them stuff and not have to attend
Skywarrior3: aren't there romance cons?
PCarlson: Gloria Oliver (saega) is our guest speaker this evening
Saeba2001: Oh there are definite Romance conventions out there. You might check the Romance Writers of America site. they may have a list
Saeba2001: *wave*
PCarlson: our friend Jasmine goes to many such
PatGuth: i've been to one--they're very good
PHeeren: I must go now........paul, can you send me bookmarks okay?
Skywarrior3: I would think so. They're like the mystery and SFF cons, more or less
PatGuth: I belong to RWA
PCarlson: okay, Tom
PHeeren: thanks
JnsnAngel: Okay, I will. I live near Phoenix. They must have a conference.
PCarlson: I must be certain the addresses on file are current
PHeeren: do you have my current address, paul?
PHeeren: sorry I asked you
PCarlson: lets talk later, Tom
Saeba2001: Oh and I guess I should do the obligatory plug. Info on me and my books at www.gloriaoliver.com
PHeeren: okay
Saeba2001: Phew now I can forget about it. lol
PHeeren: well, see you later, guys
PHeeren: take care
Saeba2001: NIght Pheeren
PHeeren: night night
JnsnAngel: Thanks Gloria. I will check it out.
Saeba2001: appreciate it
Saeba2001: My main promo items at the moment are sample cd's, bookmarks, postcards, and flyers
Saeba2001: Pens got to be a little too expensive
Mallie1025: Gloria--great site--your photo is so cute!!!
Saeba2001: lol
PatGuth: postcards, that's an interesting idea
PCarlson: I had some business cards made, but now they are outdated
JnsnAngel: What do you put on your samples. A few chapters?
PCarlson: not much $$$ anyhow
Saeba2001: A super cheap place is www.overnightprints.com 2 sided postcards with uv coating 4,000 of them for $125. A steal!
Mallie1025: Pat check out her website--really cool
PCarlson: wow! 4000 would last me quite a while
PCarlson: until I go to more Cons anyhow
Saeba2001: Yeah the sample has sample chapters, teasers, book covers, general purchase info. And since Maggie got me into doing podiobooks, I know have 3 sample audio mp3's of one of the books
Saeba2001: errr I now have
PatGuth: it's a nice site Gloria
PCarlson: and now our Word of the Week: podiobooks
Mallie1025: Yes, if I sold 4000 books, I would faint dead away!!
Saeba2001: Thanks, Pat
Saeba2001: Me too! lol
Skywarrior3: snort
BrownDvs: Hey there, Sky.
Saeba2001: www.podiobooks.com is a free MP3 file site for serialized books. Basically the authors do the readings themselves like a chapter a week and they get posted for readers. It's free but they take donations and have buy links :P
PCarlson: would that be a combination of audiobooks and podcasting?
JnsnAngel: I love that word. Snort. I must remember to use it in my next book. He snorted.
PatGuth: I suppose with the publishers normal contracts you'd probably make only $400 on the dea. Is that correct?
Mallie1025: I'll be happy when my publisher hands me one published copy lol
BrownDvs: Books are podcasted?
Skywarrior3: yes
Saeba2001: They are on the site and can be auto downloaded to your iPod program
BrownDvs: Wow. What will they think of next?
Mallie1025: Wow what an interesting concept--but will they still buy the books?
Saeba2001: The percentage of profit per book sale depends on the publisher
Skywarrior3: yes
Saeba2001: Yeah I think they will. Some will want to get ahead of your reading so they will buy it. Or if they like it enough
Saeba2001: You also get 50% of the contributions once the book is finished. (Incentive to finish even)
Saeba2001: Hard to see the numbers, but I did get one fan mail that said he would be buying it for his kid
Mallie1025: angel, just don't mix the snort up with the horse lol
Saeba2001: In the Service of Samurai is the one I am doing at the moment
Saeba2001: Maggie has her own book up there as well
Skywarrior3: yep
Saeba2001: A website presence is, I think, probably the MOST important piece of your marketing. Great place to point everyone to to check you out and your books
Saeba2001: Plus you can put the url on everything, including business cards
Mallie1025: When does a publisher generally offer the contract--right away or as the deadline for publication nears?
Saeba2001: And all your promo material of course
JnsnAngel: Is a website expensive?
Saeba2001: You have to have a signed contract before they ever do anything at all. When they accept it, you get a contract. The book may take another year or more to actually publish
Mallie1025: Yes, gloria--I have to make one--that will be Hell on earth for me--the ^&%^ blog gave me a breakdown!!
Saeba2001: Websites are not expensive. Some are free. Though I would suggest paying for a domain name. Hopefully the author name you would be using
PCarlson: PaulCarlson is taken, alas
Saeba2001: Most of the hosting places will do the domain name as well and you can pay for several years at pretty low rates
Saeba2001: Oh no!
PCarlson: the Curse of the Common Name
Saeba2001: Stick you middle initial in there
Mallie1025: Thanks--that worries me as I have a publication date, but no contract yet
Saeba2001: That would worry me as well
Saeba2001: You need to push them for a contract
Saeba2001: The moment they said they would publish they work they should have sent you one
Mallie1025: Thanks, I will--it is a new publishing company and will either make it or go belly -up
PCarlson: I tried -- also taken. :-p
PCarlson: dot net might work, though
Saeba2001: Well, if they don;t start thing out right...
PatGuth: things sometimes take time. Esp. with starting up a business
Saeba2001: Dang, Pual!
Saeba2001: Errr Paul
Saeba2001: can't type
Saeba2001: or I can type just not right. :P
PatGuth: My name was also taken for my domain
Mallie1025: Pat and I have the same publisher and Pat is coming out in april
PatGuth: I put in my middle name.
JnsnAngel: It does seem strange. No contract. Usually the first thing they do. Don't want anyone else to get claim to it.
PatGuth: Pat is coming out in February
PCarlson: well, PualCarlson.com is not taken
Saeba2001: lol
Mallie1025: deadline is February I thought?
Saeba2001: Now there's a thought
PatGuth: so mine is www.patriciaanneguthrie.com
Saeba2001: Is this a short story or a novel?
PCarlson: cool
PatGuth: It is. You said April
Saeba2001: Horsies and doggies!
PatGuth: Mine is a novel.
PCarlson: most of the people I know have had awful experiences with "free" web hosts
PatGuth: a romantic suspense
Mallie1025: Pual :) I will not try to steal your site--promise lol
Saeba2001: Then yeah I would be concerned not having a contract. Have they done the edit yet?
PCarlson: including the several ones W2P has tried
PatGuth: we're doing it now.
PCarlson: paying a few bucks a month is worth it
Mallie1025: No, I meant in the stores by april
PatGuth: the edit was done/I'm revising then will send it back.
PCarlson: ad and popup free, better still
JnsnAngel: A novel about horses and dogs, right up my alley. I love them both.
Saeba2001: You need to complain. And loudly!
Saeba2001: Domains truly are not that expensive. You may need to learn about WFT programs and html but you must have a site
PatGuth: I have mine through Yahoo
Mallie1025: Difficult situation, as we are all friends with the publishing company., Gloria
Saeba2001: One possible idea if the name is taken is to get your byline and use that
PCarlson: what is WFT ?
PCarlson: my regular domain is cuebon.com
Saeba2001: File transfer protocol software to upload the files to the site
PatGuth: Is there a way you can change your domain name and not alter the site?
PCarlson: no one else got it -- we made up the word
Saeba2001: That I don't know, Pat. Would be something to talk to the host about
PCarlson: ah yes, also called FTP, I think [File Transfer Protocol]
Saeba2001: I mangle techie terms on a daily basis so....
PatGuth: I think my name is too long. I
Saeba2001: I use WS_FTP for my Sw and it's free
Mallie1025: ahh my favorite--Yahell!!
Saeba2001: Ugh Yahell...
PatGuth: cheer up. Yours will be through Yahell too. lOL
Saeba2001: Mallie, though you may be friends, I will tell you nothing sours a relationship faster than business and $$
PatGuth: that's true.
Saeba2001: Would best protect you and them to have contracts ASAP so everyone knows what they are in for and their rights
Mallie1025: Yes, Gloria --how well I know this--so I am just watching and waiting to see how things fall into place
Saeba2001: EPIC has a sample contract that has been adopted by many small publishers if they need something as a guideline
Mallie1025: Nothing lost if it fails--a lot gained it makes it
PatGuth: what is EPIC?
Saeba2001: EPIC is the Electronically Published Internet Connection
Mallie1025: My own project--a memoir--is not a money book but a promise to a lost one--so money is not an issue with this book
PatGuth: I'll have egg on my face. I've told almost everyone I know about it.
Saeba2001: Mostly for E-books but a lot of the info applies everywhere
Saeba2001: SFWA also is a good place for info
Saeba2001: http://www.sfwa.org/
PatGuth: I'll check it out.
PCarlson: good resource
Saeba2001: Oh and on the website, make sure you use your meta tags!
Mallie1025: meta tags?
PCarlson: yes, you have been learning the lingo
Saeba2001: These tags help search engines compile their search info
PatGuth: didn't see anything on it about contracts
Saeba2001: It's part of the html headers
Saeba2001: Hm on SFWA? The EPIC link takes you right to theirs
Saeba2001: This page has several types
PatGuth: what's the EPIC address?
Saeba2001: Biggest thing is to be aware of what rights you are giving up. GIve up as few as possible.
PatGuth: I'm afraid I'm hopelessly stupid when it comes to computer lingo
JnsnAngel: I think it was Writer's Beware that give you things to check for when signing a contract.
Saeba2001: You should just be able to click on these links and it will take you right to the page
PatGuth: It probably does and I have it bookmarked.
Mallie1025: I can keep all rights to my book right?
Mallie1025: I do with my shorts
PatGuth: I think you give up first publishing rights to the publisher. Whether you get to keep them is another story
JnsnAngel: Does that have to be printed in the book. Author retains all the rights.
Saeba2001: Normally you give you give up print rights for North America for the length of the contract. Even shorts have a duration depending
Saeba2001: And it is the right to use more than anything
Saeba2001: What you want to beware of is the other rights as you can sell those separately
PatGuth: Okay for length of the contract. What's the normal length of the contract?
JnsnAngel: I think my publisher retains the rights, anyway they have to go through him.
Saeba2001: Like Movie rights, ebook rights, audio book rights, overseas
Mallie1025: right--good to know--thanks
Saeba2001: Contracts are normally a year or two with renewals
Saeba2001: and they also have out clauses for breach
PatGuth: are renewals optioned?
Mallie1025: so if selling well you would renew--if not, you wouldn't?
Saeba2001: depends on the publisher on both
Saeba2001: Zumaya has books available forever due to the printing source so I could renew each year and always have them available
PatGuth: brb
Saeba2001: For the big boys, the book might be on the shelf for 3 months then pulled, but depending on the verbiage, you might not get your rights back for years
Saeba2001: That's why it is always important to look at those
PCarlson: ouch
Saeba2001: Luckily most of mine have been simple contracts
Mallie1025: wow--good thing my daughter is an attorney!
Saeba2001: I believe the EPIC site contract shows what verbiage to look for etc.
Saeba2001: If you get an agent, this would be the biggest part of their job. :P
Saeba2001: Once they got you a contract, they get to tear it apart
Mallie1025: epic is also a cheap rx plan--if I google it which will I get lol?
Saeba2001: lol
PCarlson: Micki, you planned that all along, huh? ;-D
Saeba2001: You want the one that is an .org
Mallie1025: certainly not lol
Saeba2001: Type Electronic Publishing and EPIC and it should google okay
Mallie1025: No agent with this new group--a good thing I thought
Saeba2001: lol second listing on google that way
Mallie1025: Yes, I wrote that all out lol
PatGuth: Not yet
JnsnAngel: I remember one thing that should be on a contract especially with a one person publisher. What happens to my book if something happens to him before it is published.
PCarlson: http://www.epicauthors.com/
Mallie1025: scroll up, Pat
PatGuth: that's a great question
Saeba2001: Yes, normally the contracts have a "if not published by" clause
PCarlson: famous story in SF circles
Saeba2001: The rights would be free again
PCarlson: agent had all the info in his head
Skywarrior3: re
Saeba2001: doh
Mallie1025: Thanks Paul--got it in favs now
PatGuth: well I don't have to worry about it until i HAVE a contract.
PCarlson: dropped dead -- poof! -- and money and contracts essentially vanished
PCarlson: I think that author became penniless
PatGuth: Oh jeez
PCarlson: (this was years ago)
PatGuth: authors make little enough
PatGuth: on their books
Saeba2001: that is too true
Skywarrior3: well, penniless is status quo with authors
Saeba2001: and competition gets more fierce every year
Mallie1025: Pat --feel like running away with me lol
PatGuth: LOL
Saeba2001: lol
PCarlson: we are here for moral support
PatGuth: makes you wonder why you even bother.
Saeba2001: Yeah you have to be very stubborn to get into this business
PCarlson: camp fires and Kumbaya optional :)
Skywarrior3: me, stubborn?
Saeba2001: not for the meek
Skywarrior3: ;-)
PatGuth: not for the faint of heart.
Saeba2001: yah
JnsnAngel: So many talented writers that never get noticed. Dirty shame.
Saeba2001: yes it is
PatGuth: but then you could always self publish (gag)
Skywarrior3: ::skywarrior faints::
Mallie1025: Yes, why can I just be left alone to write? They can pub me posthumously (sp)
Saeba2001: I don't recommend it
PCarlson: Gloria, what do you think of Lulu?
PatGuth: then you have to take all expenses on yourself plus marketing
PCarlson: we are thinking of using it for a school's history project
PatGuth: No, I don't either.
Skywarrior3: I have thoughts
Skywarrior3: thoughts too
PatGuth: I don't know Lulu. I've heard the name.
PCarlson: Lulu now offers hard cover books
PCarlson: Lulu
Saeba2001: Lulu seems to have a better rep than Publish American. To self publish is a personal decision. But not one I would take for myself
Skywarrior3: I've heard good things of Lulu, but they are bitheads
Mallie1025: lol Sky
PatGuth: Me either
JnsnAngel: It isn't too hard to publish yourself and save the money. Especially if you know your way around a computer.
PatGuth: what's a bithead?
Skywarrior3: namely, if you want handholding, you won't get much of that
Skywarrior3: techies
PatGuth: oh
Saeba2001: The main problem I see with self pubs is the editing
PCarlson: I figured a hard cover with a lot of color photo pages would run about $25 each
PCarlson: POD technology
Skywarrior3: they're happy with producing the product but don't do much tech support
Mallie1025: Maybe I'll just use Kinkos lol
Saeba2001: The writer never gets someone else to crit the work sufficiently to get it to a good enough level
Saeba2001: before putting it out
Mallie1025: I don't see the editing a problem as much as the marketing
Skywarrior3: Well, believe it or not, I may be doing some e self-publishing
PCarlson: indeed
JnsnAngel: I don't think they do books Mallie. The can print, but not bind them into books.
PatGuth: brb
PCarlson: maybe spiral bound, but that' not a "real" book, eh?
Saeba2001: heh not normally
Mallie1025: Odd, angel-I heard just the opposite
Skywarrior3: Mainly because of the format of one of my books is a novella
Saeba2001: unless it's something small
JnsnAngel: If you can do it yourself, you just pay for the printing and the ISBN number and bar code.
Skywarrior3: The thing is, with really, really tiny publishers, I can do more by myself
Mallie1025: Sky if I had the money, I would self-pub the memoir
PCarlson: bar code too
JnsnAngel: The printing is less than $5.00 per book usually. Unless over 100,000 words.
Skywarrior3: use Lulu
PCarlson: Lulu is free. literally so
Skywarrior3: You don't pay anything -- you just give them a cut
PCarlson: unless you choose extra services
Skywarrior3: yes
PCarlson: (jinx!)
JnsnAngel: Yes, but a big cut that is. You buy back your own books so to speak.
Mallie1025: brb==don't anyone dare leave!!
PCarlson: or can you say that for chat lines?
Saeba2001: PA supposedly now does the same. But I would avoid them. They have a very bad rep in general
Skywarrior3: not really
PCarlson: they sure so.
Skywarrior3: just about 20%
PCarlson: they did Miami Nights, right?
Skywarrior3: I wouldn't do PA
Skywarrior3: yes
Saeba2001: Yah the big sting by SWFA members
PCarlson: laughing stock of the English speaking world
Skywarrior3: I know a few who wrote it
Saeba2001: Which they now sell on Lulu so people can see what PA took
Saeba2001: :P
Skywarrior3: lol
Skywarrior3: yes
PCarlson: but I hear the book itself has become something of a cult classic
Skywarrior3: It
Skywarrior3: 'It's so bad, it's funny
Saeba2001: A lesson on what not to do when writing. Yes
Skywarrior3: like eye of argon
JnsnAngel: What was wrong with it?
Skywarrior3: 25 good authors wrote a very bad story
Saeba2001: No plot, changing characters, anything and everything wrong they could do they did
PCarlson: cranked out the worst doggerel they could hatch
Skywarrior3: Intentionally so
Saeba2001: They were testing PA's premise that they only took on quality work and screened all submissions
Skywarrior3: My favorite is that they changed races of characters
JnsnAngel: They did it on purpose to illustrate what can happen?
Mallie1025: back--thanks for staying LOL
Skywarrior3: yes
Saeba2001: They did it on purpose to see if PA would take it. They did and sent a contract
Skywarrior3: It was FUNNY!
Saeba2001: Which proved they took anything
JnsnAngel: I know a poor guy who lost a lot of money with Authorhouse. They will print anything. He must be a nice person, but he was in an accident and his brain doesn't work exactly right. They took advantage of him.
Skywarrior3: I think it starts out
PCarlson: embarrassed them -- but not enough for them to stop!
Skywarrior3: Pain
Skywarrior3: Pain. Pain. Pain
Skywarrior3: or something similar
Skywarrior3: It was so damn funny
Saeba2001: It's basically a cheap for of vanity house except now they don't loose money upfront so they don't have to ask for it
Saeba2001: err form
Saeba2001: err form of! Argh
Skywarrior3: WHat they do is require you to sign rights away for 7 years
PCarlson: in other words, qwifqyw[qfha;ouw3yr9q76r[38ueihu
Saeba2001: yes
Saeba2001: exactly
Saeba2001: $-D
Skywarrior3: Get the cat off the computer!
Mallie1025: lol
PCarlson: meow
Mallie1025: and what's that smell?
Skywarrior3: ewwww
Saeba2001: :-o
PCarlson: not MY cat
PatGuth: I'm going to get going. See you all later
Skywarrior3: ;-)
JnsnAngel: I just can't see going with any company like that. I worked too long and too hard for them to make all the money.
Saeba2001: Heh
Saeba2001: Well guys, I hate to say it, but I am going to have to go.
PCarlson: its late
Beccastrat: I think I'm going to have to hit the road too.
Saeba2001: I get up at 5:30 am and it's past my bedtime
Skywarrior3: Well, see, in order for you to sell, you have to buy your own books
PCarlson: thanks for staying an hour despite my slip-up
Saeba2001: I owed you man!
Skywarrior3: seeya
JnsnAngel: Thanks so much for your expertise.
PCarlson: great practical advice
Saeba2001: Hope it was useful. Enjoyed talking to you all!
PCarlson: thanks everyone
PCarlson: next time CALL me
Beccastrat: Yes - thank you very much. Very enjoyable. :-)
PCarlson: I ain't getting any younger and my brain must have sprung a leak
Beccastrat: Goodnight. :-)
JnsnAngel: Goodnight all.
Mallie1025: Gloria--you're the best--please visit us again
PCarlson: thanks, everyone
PCarlson: next week is Ellen's debut session
Mallie1025: night guys--excellent chat!! Paul send the log--like you'd forget lol
PCarlson: I will send it

11/20/06 8:54:02 PM Closing "Chat Log 11/20/06"

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